Langer's on the Go, Miller's French Dip

I just came back from Southern California - man is the weather great out there. While I was in Chicago I saw a baseball field covered with ice, lifeless. February in Los Angeles, the sun was shining, the BBQ pits were filled with charcoal, and the baseball field was packed with softball players enjoying the rays....what a different world. The East Coast simply hates to hear about it - yes we're relaxing by the pool while you're shoveling snow. Keep on rooting for the Arizona Bay - if you're an LA hater. True LA locals and those that have been introduced to LA in a proper manner know the City of Angels to be a genuine thriving metropolis, with unending recreational possibilities. Some of my favorites things about LA include the beaches, the Lakers, and Langer's.

Pack of Pastrami

I wasn't sure I was going to be able to get any pastrami in on my vacation there. Saturday was the LA food festival, where many food trucks were parked in a row in a small lot in Downtown LA for foodies to enjoy, including Fresser's - a pastrami wielding food truck. My dad and I showed up to the event only to find a huge line - 2 hours just to get in the place...on top of that you only got small samples of the food from each truck - not full portions...boo. We left and tried to head to Langer's, which was also packed. It was the first nice weekend in a long time and people were out - the long wait at Langer's didn't seem appealing. I told my dad "Father's Office would be great too." which is a place that serves gourmet burgers along the lines of a Paragon/Zuni burger in SF. They had no wait and we enjoyed our burgers outside in the sunshine. When I woke up the next morning, I found out my dad had been busy while I was sleeping and picked up a Langer's to go pack! I was familiar with this pack, not because I've seen it, but because I read about it an article by the website Serious Eats - NY.

Heating Instructions

I was happy to find out my dad had procured a whole loaf of Langer's double baked rye bread - it's killer bread. "You know how they give them to you?" my dad asked me. "They put loaves that are almost the size of 2 loaves of bread on a large rack, this is actually about half of a loaf." The bag looked pretty full to me. The Serious Eats article declared "that the source of Langer's superiority (over Katz's) was its double-baked rye". I was surprised by the lack of quality of the bread at some of the NYC Delis I visited. Langer's, Canters, Brent's, Nate n' Al's, all the LA heavy hitters, have heavenly rye bread. My friend Peter said to me "You know what you are almost more than a pastrami expert - you're a bread snob." He's probably right - I loathe the bread at Saul's in Berkeley and I love it at Miller's East Deli. It's a very simple matter of taste, with a crispy crust, this article sums it up pretty well and Save the Deli supports my claim saying "most of the rye bread at delicatessens around America is not worth the effort it takes to chew. Of all the ryes I tasted in my global research into Jewish delicatessens, none were more disappointing than the supposedly legendary New York rye." Many people tell me "Oh I don't like rye bread - it's bland and I don't like the seeds" and so on and so forth. The level of difference between a proper double baked rye and a regular rye is like comparing pastrami to spam. There is a BIG difference. I took the Langer's bread we had left over in the plane back with me and enjoyed it for several days..I think there might be one piece left in the fridge - but it's not what it once was.

Russian Dressing and Tomatoes - Langer's #29

Pastrami Service

#29 W/o Bread

My President's Day Sandwich

We sat outside on the patio and enjoyed our pastrami while humming birds buzzed above our heads. Poor Sue is allergic to gluten and had the pastrami without bread, poor Sue! They tasted pretty darn close to the real Langer's sit down - which is as always excellent, if not the best.

Jessica and I Love Our Cel-ray Sodas

I took some friends to Miller's in SF today for their very first pastrami experience. When I walked in I watched the meat cutter doing his work. He grabbed a big piece of pastrami - like a 5 pound cut - and took a knife to the center of it hand slicing the middle, yellow, fatty part of the pastrami that would ruin the sandwich if put in the slicer. He then put the pastrami into the slicer and made a nice sized pile of pastrami to go on the next sandwich. My friends Jessica and Rose were very excited when they saw the menu. "Do we have to order pastrami?" They asked me. I said the same thing Grandpa Ralph said to me when I was a young guy squirming in the booth at Langer's - "You'd be a fool not to get the pastrami."

Grilled NY Special - The Best Pastrami Sandwich in SF City Limits

Cheese Blintzes and Potato Pancakes

The Elusive Pastrami Dip - IN SF!

Philly Cheesesteak

I started by ordering everyone cel-ray sodas. They came in bottles, which is only in California for some strange reason, everyone else has cans. They actually had been miscapped with caps that read "ginger ale"...how odd. Everyone liked the cel-ray soda from the start this time around! For appetizers we tried the Cheese blintzes and the Potato Pancakes. The pancakes were out of this world good with sour cream and apple sauce on the side. They were very crispy and had the feel of a human formed pancake. I liked the cheese blintzes, but my guests thought they were a bit too sweet. Perhaps I should have fooled them into eating the derma or kishke without telling them what it is - next guest that comes with me and lets me order for them is in trouble. When my friend Jessica looked at the monstrous menu she noticed they had pastrami French dips. I was looking for this type of sandwich in SF and it was right under my nose - I was always looking away from the French Dip section because it's not really my thing - especially at Miller's. Her pastrami dip was pretty good! When I tried it she reminded me "You have to dip it!" handing the au jus over emphatically. My sandwich was superb as always. The Grilled NY special at Miller's is a true work of art, but I try not to get it for takeout because it tends to fall apart in transit. If you're going to order take out from there - order a regular pastrami sandwich or the Chief (half pastrami, half corned beef) - the bread sticks together better when it hasn't been slathered with coleslaw after being toasted. Jessica ordered her pastrami dip 2 reasons - she loves French dips and she hates rye bread (or at least that's what she said before we sat down). She took the last quarter part of my grilled NY special, the part the had the crispy, grilled Miller's rye bread crust. She was flabbergasted when she tried it "I should have followed your lead." she said after trying the last little corner my sandwich. "So how was that rye bread?" I asked her. She just made a face and said "Well, that was an especially good rye." Robby Morgenstein has told me that he gets his bread from somewhere in New Jersey, so I know there is good rye somewhere on the East Coast. I'll have to ask them specifically where they get their rye bread from next time. I've also read that Zingerman's in Ann Arbor, Michigan has legendary Jewish rye bread that you can order online. If you can't make it to LA, you can still get Langer's rye and pastrami overnight. So, if you dislike rye bread, I really urge you to try some of the best before you decide completely against it! I've tried pastrami many ways now, and the best way to have it is with good company, on rye bread, with a Dr. Browns soda of your choice.

LA - Pastrami Capital of the World!

Part 1 : Fast Food Pastrami

Los Angeles is the Pastrami capital of the world. I was born in San Pedro, went to high school in Palm Desert and I'm proud to say no other city in America can compete to the number restaurants that serve pastrami in the Southland. Take this into consideration: I looked up the word pastrami on one of my favorite sites - yelp. SF yielded 317 results (I swear it's not just me, but I may have skewed the SF #s), Chicago lagged out at 79, Philly a mere 22, NYC only 289. Los Angeles beats them all out with a whopping 476 results. That's over one hundred more than the Bay Area and More than NYC/Philly/Chitown combined. How could this be? Why does LA have more pastrami than any other place in America?

Johnny's Pastrami

The simple, correct answer - the pastrami dip. The Hat is probably the most notorious place to serve this type of sandwich. The first "Hat" was in Alhambra, CA and my dad go there often as a high schooler to go down cheeseburgers with his buddy Bill. He currently works in Alhambra (only for another year old man! tough it out!) and today there is one about 5 minutes from my Dad's house on Atlantic Ave in East Los Angeles, however I did not visit the Hat on this journey - I wanted to try some different takes on the pastrami dip. I made it to Johnny's Pastrami after a night of chilling with my college buddy. I took the 110 South to the 10 West and got off on Crenshaw, pulled into the parking lot and approached the small grated window. "How may I help you." a lady asked, I could tell she had a bit of a chip on her shoulder. "May I get a pastrami sandwich." then she asked the key question "Do you want it dipped?" "Yes, please Ma'am. Thank you, Ma'am." I told her minding my Ps and Qs while being in Mid-City on an unusually chilly, windy LA night. She took out a medium sized roll put some mustard on and proceeded to PILE the pastrami mile high on it till it was bursting out of the bun then she grabbed more and put extra on the top, just so it was beyond bursting...I'm talking alot of meat here. I took it to my car in the parking lot and took a bite.

Johnny's Pastrami Sandwich (only about half pictured!)

Mmm...that's pretty good. The pastrami was fatty, very fatty....the taste bordered on hot dog and that's what my hand smelled like when I was done - like a hot dog. Still pretty damn good - no way they leave you hungry - by far the largest pastrami sandwich I've ever encountered under 10$ and yes they have very good pickles. The Hat and Johnny's Pastrami are probably the most popular fast food pastrami dip joints, but one place has been turning some heads with their take on pastrami.


I had to do some business in Pasadena and finished around lunch time. I thought to myself, "Eagle Rock is pretty close from here." Oinkster is located in an old Wienerschnitzel building in the Eagle Rock Neighborhood of Los Angeles, which is currently thriving after once being a rougher part of town.

This place is very much a fast food joint as they also serve burgers, chicken, shakes, and even some sneaky good cupcakes, but their true passion is their in-house cured pastrami. "We're the only ones that sell this pastrami" the manager behind the counter told me. The Oinkster pastrami is smoked over applewood and cured for two weeks then sliced and served into a roll - fast food style. There is one version that is served with gruyere cheese- how gourmet! I ordered the regular with the Belgian fries which were crispy and delicious.

Oinkster Pastrami W/ Fries

Applewood Smoked Pastrami

So how did the Oinkster taste? Imagine the texture and smokiness of pastrami crossed very much with the taste of applewood smoked bacon you get on some high price burgers. It had a lovely brine and perfect color. Oinkster has truly perfected the fast food pastrami sandwich.

Many fans of Jewish delis just gagged at the first part of my LA post. This version of the pastrami sandwich had to be represented for Los Angeles. It's unique to the area and I have not seen it outside of LA - sorry to say to my new reader Mr. Kirsonis. If you're looking to match this in the Bay Area - I'd say the closest I've had so far would be an AK sub pastrami or Tommy's Joynt (Tommy's review coming soon). They'd probably even dip it just tell them you want a roll and mustard only. It'd be your best shot to get this style pastrami in the City of San Francisco until I find or hear of a pastrami dip in SF.

Part II: The San Fernando Valley

When I was a young child living in the South Bay of LA, I remember my parents referring to the Valley as if it were another country. Things have changed - for one I have a good friend who lives in Woodland Hills - so I had to get over my Fernandophobia. Also, several more very trusted sources have told me great things about Brent's. Save the Deli spoke of their unique homemade kishke dish and Al S. told me "For overall quality on everything - I think Brent's is the best deli of all." As I looked into it more and more I've realized the San Fernando Valley has become a deli Mecca. Brent's has expanded into a new huge location just down the road in Westlake Village. Almost as a direct response, Nate n' Al's of Beverley Hills expanded into the Valley with a location in Thousand Oaks rounding out the already saturated deli scene.

I went to Brent's on a Saturday afternoon with my dad. We met up with his friend and former co-worker, Melinda, who exclaimed to me "I haven't been to Brent's in years!"

Cabbage Soup

She ordered the cabbage soup, which I had the pleasure of finishing. It had small pieces of beef in it and it tasted very good at first, but then seemed a little too sweet as I continued. I still finished the thing down to about nothing because the small pieces of beef were quite succulent.

Stuffed Kishke

The kishke made my dad squirm. You mean you'd eat this over lobster? I'm not a big seafood eater - sorry. My thoughts on the kishke - it was alright, but I don't think I would order it very many times, maybe to show someone who hasn't tried it, but not as a regular thing.

Half Sandwich - Brisket

The #1 - Pastrami, Tomatoes and Russian Dressing

As I looked over the menu I saw that my favorite way to have a pastrami sandwich (pictured above) was the first way they offered it. They read my mind! I found out at Brent's they use something called "black" pastrami, which is extremely lean. Our waitress told us "We can even cut it leaner if you'd like." To be honest I wanted more fat, more flavor. The bread, the dressing, everything else was perfect, but for pastrami it was very good, but short of perfect because of it's lack of fat content. This is however my opinion, some more health-conscience delis might find this information useful. Let me ask a question though - if you wanted lean meat, why didn't you just get the corned beef, a naturally less fatty cut of beef? Despite the leaner pastrami, overall I had a great experience at Brent's and I would definitely return. My dad said his Reuben was "the best he's ever had" which was surprisingly quite easily admitted by an LA guy like himself. I thought the dishes and sides were up there with some of the best traditional Jewish items that I've had - so Al was spot on about overall quality of Brent's - it's top notch!

The next day was Sunday and I headed out to Woodland Hills to meet up with my friend Chris D to watch the football games. After the games, we made it to Nate N' Al's new location in Westlake Village.

As we pulled in the mall parking lot adjacent to the AMC theaters, I wasn't quite sure what to expect from this deli - located in the shopping mall center in the SFV. Before we ordered they brought us pickles and rye bread.

Nate N' Al's Rye Bread

As I took my first bite of the rye bread, I gasped - it was some of the best rye bread I've ever had. It had a nice crispy crust, chewy, but not too chewy with just the perfect amount of warmth and rye flavor. I ordered the New York (pastrami, Russian dressing, and coleslaw) and my buddy ordered half corned beef with french fries. He kinda grumbled at the fact they charge more for fries instead of a side salad.

The New York

Potato Pancake

Half Corned Beef w/ Fries

Nate N' Al's pastrami was lovely. It had the right amount of fat content with a smoky brine. The presentation as a whole with the superb double-baked rye was something to behold. Both my friend and I agreed - it was pretty damn amazing!

The next place I went to was on a solo mission - Fromin's in Encino. It's a pretty cool spot I think may have fallen through the cracks in the Valley because of the prolific number of spectacular jewish delis.

Mile-High Pastrami W/ Coleslaw

The sides at Fromin's were damn good! The potato salad pictured above was very creamy and rich. Out of all the potato pancakes I had - I liked the Fromin's one the most.

Fromin's Potato Pancake

The pastrami at Fromin's was proper. Thinly sliced - good flavor. The only thing I can know a point for would be the rye bread. It was good on the softer parts, but the crust was very lacking that chewy goodness that Nate N' Al's had. I still highly recommend Fromin's for lunch. They have a very large menu that could accommodate lots of tastes - sort of like Canter's in West LA. I did visit Canter's but I did not have a pastrami. I only bought things from their bakery, some more of those poppy seed rugelah. My dad and I ate the bag slowly of about 20 small bakery items. It might have lasted about 3 days! Their bakery is one of the main attractions, don't miss it on your way out - you'll thank me.

Part 3 : Langer's Hot Pastrami

With Norm Langer

Langer's is the pastrami institution of Los Angeles. As my friend James put it "How many restaurant's have a square named after them?" For their 60th anniversary an area right outside Alvarado and 7th just adjacent to the restaurant was given to Langer's by the City of Los Angeles. Sax said it was the best pastrami sandwich anywhere - many have expressed the same opinion. I made two trips to the famed deli on my vacation to Los Angeles.

The first time I went was with my friend James, just before christmas. When we walked in the place was packed, barely enough room for us to stand in there to put our name down on the list. We went outside of the restaurant to kill some time, take some pictures and grab a soda. When you exit Langer's, you enter a war zone. It's loud, heavy foot traffic, and rather unappealing, definitely not the most glamorous part of Los Angeles. After about 15 minutes we entered and our table was ready.

As my friend James and I sat down to me he continued to talk about his fondness of Langer's "Katz' has nothing on this place. They herd you in there like cattle, here you sit down at a nice, roomy table and waitresses call you hun." It was true, the scene inside was much nicer, friendlier than what's going on just outside the front doors. "You're getting the #19, right?" James asked me. Normally I get the #29 which comes with just tomatoes and Russians dressing, but I was obliged to do the most popular, famous sandwich at Langer's the #19 which comes with swiss cheese, cole slaw, and russian dressing on rye.

Most Famous Sandwich in LA - Langer's #19

As we scarfed down our pastrami I just thought to myself about all the delis I just had tried. Nate N' Al's really does come close, but nothing in LA beats Langer's pastrami. It's a deeper red than all the others and the bread is a killer double baked rye, crust is perfect. I said to James "You know they hand slice the meat here?" He didn't believe me, "The pieces are way to uniform". On the way out we looked into the window and a guy hand slicing the meat James was stunned. We went back up to his place on the top of Figueroa and started watching Jeopardy. The last question came up and the guy that was in the lead was far ahead and bet 0$ on the last question which he did not know the answer - he simply wrote "Hot Pastrami Sandwiches". I think that made my day even more than the #19.

The next time I went to Langer's was with my father the day after christmas. We drove from his house in Monterey Park to the new Gold Line stop at East LA Civic Center. The red line stops just by Langer's - the first time I went to Langer's was on the train with my Grandfather and I swear to you I remembered the right way out of the subway fifteen years later because of that. I ordered the #29 and a cel-ray. My dad said he would have whatever I was having. I guess I've earned his respect, he now trusts me to order for him. He actually said "I think you may have something with the #29 - I think it's better than the 19." I think it is too. You simply don't need cheese on that tasty pastrami. Russian dressing, tomatoes, and some Gulden's mustard smeared on when you feel and you're perfect.

Ted's LA Favorite - Langer's #29

If you read this whole post (it got a bit lengthy) you've earned a very special thanks from me. There's still lots to explore in Los Angeles and the Bay Area (Wood Tavern, Manhattan hub, and lots of Irish spots)! I'm going to NYC at the end of the month and I hope it can live up to the hype. It couldn't be as good as Langer's or The Refuge my favorite California pastrami - could it?